A BOOK WE CAN TRUST PART 1

The BibleTHE COMPILING OF THE BIBLE

What is the Bible? What process did the Bible undergo before it became the volume that we possess today? These are more than academic questions because they involve the authenticity of the Scriptures as God’s Word:

“The Bible being to us what it is, it is of the highest importance that we should be satisfied of the authenticity of the title-deeds of our faith; that we should be able to accept them, not with a blind and unintelligent belief, but with a clear understanding of the manner in which the several books came into existence, and of the means by which they have been handed down to us.” Sir Frederick Kenyon (Director and Chief Librarian of the British Museum, 1909-1930) in “The Story of the Bible”.

1: The Bible Defined

The word Bible stems from the Latin Biblia meaning “the books”. While this is not inaccurate, it would be more precise to call the Bible by the singular, The Book (Psalm 40:7, Hebrews 10:7).

In 2nd Timothy 3:16-17, Paul identifies the Bible by two names; “the holy scriptures” and “all scripture”. While these words appear similar they are actually quite distinct in the Greek original. “The holy scriptures” is a translation of hieros gramma which literally means “sacred writings”. All scripture, on the other hand, is constructed very differently; pas graphe. Both Vincent and Vine in their word studies show that graphe is often used of the individual passages of a book as opposed to the entire volume. What is interesting, however, is that gramma is often employed as the word meaning “letter”; Galatians 6:11. Therefore Paul may well have been stating that all the holy letters of the Bible were known by Timothy and that all the passages of the sacred writings were inspired. William Hendrickson, however, suggests that the “sacred writings” were all the letters of the Old Testament whereas “all scripture” included the Old Testament plus the body of New Testament inspiration. What is notable here is that Paul was emphasising the importance of every letter, every passage as well as every book within the volume of Scripture.

The word Scripture itself is a most important term defining what the Bible is. That word also is derived from the Latin and means “the writings”. There are numerous examples from within the Bible which indicate that it was ever emphasised as the book which God wrote (Hosea 8:12, Exodus 32:16, 2nd Kings 17:37). Our Lord constantly rebuffed Satan with the words “It is written”. Also the Bible is referred to as being The Word of God. This marks it out as being a powerful book and quite distinct from the words which man records (Ephesians 6:17, Hebrews 4:12).

2: The Bible Preceded

What would the world be like if we did not have a Bible? For the Christian this is a solemn question, yet there was no Bible in any form until the time of Moses who was born in 1500 BC approximately. Therefore for an astonishing 2500 years there were no sacred oracles. Did that mean the Lord’s people had no revelation during that period? Evidently not because throughout those years some of the godliest people in all history lived and worked; Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. All of these people benefited from visions and dreams where God revealed himself. Also in the absence of an inspired history there was an oral tradition where the details of their past was passed from generation to generation, until the days of Moses when this was formulated into the inspired record of Genesis.

3: The Bible Inscribed

God employed approximately forty authors in the writing of the scriptures. Together they laboured for more than 1500 years until their record was completed with the “Amen” of John’s Apocalypse. These authors were diverse in education and experience yet their work was a unity which depicted Christ from beginning to end, “the alpha and the omega” (Revelation 1:8). We observe Christ in Abel’s simple offering, in the various sacrifices of the Levitical economy, in beautiful character types, in the glorious messianic prophecies in the Psalms and Isaiah, in the facts of his life in the Gospel, in the high doctrine of Paul and in the foretelling of the second advent. He is the prime subject without whom there would be no Bible. This blessed theme of redemption by Christ highlights the divine nature of the Book:

You see, then, it was sometimes the artless and sublime simplicity of John; sometimes the impassioned elliptical, rousing, and logical energy of Paul, sometimes the fervour and solemnity of Peter; it was Isaiah’s magnificent and David’s lyrical, poetry, it was the simple and majestic narratives of Moses, or the sententious and royal wisdom of Solomon – yes it was all this; it was Peter, it was Isaiah, it Matthew, it was John, it was Moses; yet it was God.” Dr L Gaussen, “Theopneustia, The Plenary Inspiration of The Holy Scriptures.

The Scriptures were originally written on a variety of materials consistent with the learning of the age. We know for example that Moses would have inscribed his works on earthen clay, which was the material employed by the ancient Egyptians. Long before Christ, however, writing was inscribed onto Papyrus Scrolls. The Papyrus was made from the leaf of a delicate plant grown in Egypt. Each scroll was no longer that 40 feet, which would have corresponded to one Gospel. There have been been discoveries of manuscripts, however, showing that the skill was developed whereby these papyrus leaves could be bound into a volume as opposed to a scroll. By the 2nd Century vellum, which was leather material had superseded the papyrus and the codex, or the modern book form had become the norm.

The original writings by the pen-men of scripture are known as the autographs. They do not exist today as they have passed away into the dust of time. By virtue of a process of copying the words of the autographs, were passed on from generation to generation. What is particularly comforting is that no ancient book has the multitude of manuscripts corroborating the text as the Bible. It was a book used, accepted, loved, studied and copied with the greatest care. It was a book written by God and preserved by Him.

4: The Bible Completed

The completed Bible is divided into two major sections, The Old and The New Testaments. The word testament refers to a covenant which is an agreement. In order to redeem man God entered into a covenant with Christ. The Bible is the unfolding of this covenant which secured redemption for fallen man. The Old Testament contains details of the Law which was the covenant God made with Israel. Israel and indeed all humanity have failed to keep this covenant, which illustrates the necessity of a Covenant of Grace rather than of Works (Galatians 3:23-24).

A word key to our understanding of the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments is “Canon”. The word means a rule or a line. It was a matter of great concern for the ancient Jew and subsequently for the early Church that they identified those writings which were written according to the special rule, divine inspiration. Ultimately we believe that the Jews and the Church were guided by the Holy Spirit to discern what writings were canonical (inspired )and which were non- canonical (not inspired). The product of their deliberations were the 66 books in our English Bible.

The Old Testament was completed 400 years before Christ when Malachi wrote his prophecy. The Jews in an authoritative manner closed the Old Testament Canon about 100 years before Christ’s birth at a Council just south of modern Tel Aviv. They did not consider the Apocrypha to be inspired.

There is abundant historical evidence that all of the writings in the New Testament were written before 70AD, which corresponds with the generation of the Apostle’s of our Lord. It was some time, however, before they were gathered together into one volume. From the writings of Clement, Bishop of Rome, we know that this process was beginning before the close of the 1st Century. There is considerable evidence that in the 2nd and 3rd Centuries all of the writings in the New Testament were collected and considered as inspired. Miraculously these works were preserved despite the concentrated efforts of successive Roman Emperors to kill Christians and burn their sacred books. By the 4th Century Church leaders such as Jerome, Augustine and Athanasius were citing the 27 Books of the New Testament. There were, however, some disputed books; Hebrews, James, Peter’s letters and one of John’s epistles. It was at the 8th Council of Carthage, North Africa, in 397 AD that a decision was formally taken ratifying the New Testament we possess today. There were 3 simple tests that were used to determine whether a Book was inspired or not; (1) The writing had to be written by an apostle or under the influence of an apostle; (2) The writing must be consistent with the teaching of the apostles; (3) The writing had be used by Christians from the 1st Century.

5: The Bible Translated

An introduction to the Bible would not be complete without a look at the history of translation. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew with the exception of a small number of passages which were penned in Aramaic. As a consequence of the conquests of Alexander the Great (died in 323BC), however, the world was given a unified language, Koine or Common Greek. Many Jews could no longer speak or read Hebrew. The time had come for the first Bible translation. 72 scholars working in Alexandria, Egypt, produced a Greek version of the Old Testament known as the Septuagint. This was the translation our Lord quoted from and read and it was the version which the apostles quoted as they wrote the books of the New Testament. In the providence of God the way was prepared for the New Testament age.

By the 4th Century the same problem arose again, because by this stage Latin had superseded Greek as the language of the empire. While there were some Latin translations of the Old and New Testaments most were certainly unreliable. It was a scholar called Jerome, who was commissioned by the Bishop of Rome, who undertake the mammoth task of translation. The product of Jerome’s work was the Latin Vulgate. While this work became a blessing to many it subsequently became a curse. As the Church plunged into the Dark Ages with the ascendancy of the Papacy, Jerome’s Vulgate became the only version countenanced. As Latin gradually became an extinct language the peoples of Europe were plunged into a darkness as they became a people without a Bible. To translate the Scriptures into the vernacular was deemed a crime punishable by death.

Nevertheless in England there was a desire to translate the Scriptures into the Anglo Saxon. Two of the most famous of these translators were “The Venerable Bede (674-735) and King Alfred (849-899). The first English translation of the Scriptures was completed by John Wycliffe in 1382. With Jerome’s Latin Vulgate as his manuscript he succeeded amid much opposition and earned himself the title “The Morning Star of the Reformation”.

Few inventions have been blessed more spiritually than the printing press, pioneered by a German called Johann Gutenberg. The Bible was major source of his business as he printed 200 copies on paper. Throughout Europe printing presses sprang up; the age of ignorance was nearing an end.

Before the Bible would be translated into the language of the people, one more piece of jigsaw had to be completed; a printed edition of the Greek New Testament where all the manuscripts would be compiled into one volume. Two scholars worked on this task; Erasmus (1527) and Stephanus (1550).

With all the tools necessary the Reformers considered it their life’s work to give their people the Bible. Luther led the way with his German Translation. Foremost among the English translators is William Tyndale who was martyred for his work. Throughout the 16th Century the Bible passed through a number of translations. These were all based on the work of Tyndale; Matthew’s Bible ‘s (1537), Coverdale’s Bible (1539, also known as the Great or the Chained Bible) and the Geneva Bible (1557). The crowning achievement of this golden period of scholarship, however, was the King James Version.

28 thoughts on “A BOOK WE CAN TRUST PART 1

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  1. The bible was compiled long after Paul existed. There is nothing to indicate that Timothy knew all of the books of the bible as we know it today. As for the bible as we know it today, Catholics and Protestants do not agree what should be in it. Translators do not agree on how to translate it and we have at least 30 different versions, which begs the question: why do Christians need so many versions of a compilation that is supposedly true and unquestioned? There is also the problem that the books of the bible contradict each other, plus we have the first book, Genesis which contradicts itself in its first few chapters with its two versions of the creation story.

    The various books within the bible claim that they are the “word of God”. The books are the claim, where’s the evidence that this is true at all? There are oral traditions for other religions, what makes them any less true than your religion? Islam claims that the qu’ran is the word of this god. Why should I believe your claims and doubt theirs?

    ” These authors were diverse in education and experience yet their work was a unity which depicted Christ from beginning to end, “the alpha and the omega” (Revelation 1:8).” This is an unsubstantiated opinion. We still have Jews who are quite sure that your religion is nonsense.

    “What is particularly comforting is that no ancient book has the multitude of manuscripts corroborating the text as the Bible.” Which is simply untrue. We know that the books of the bible have been altered (consider the book of Mark and its added ending). Also, if your logic works, then Scientology is as valid as your religion because the manuscripts match.

    Exactly when did Moses live, FFTS? When the flood happen? We have clay tablets from 4000 BCE. Why did your god fail at preserving the autographs? Why are there cave painting far older than the cultures of the Middle east that are lovely and weren’t destroyed in your mythical flood?
    “There is abundant historical evidence that all of the writings in the New Testament were written before 70AD, which corresponds with the generation of the Apostle’s of our Lord.” What evidence is this, FFTS? There are other books about the claims of Jews and Christians also written around this time and those were left out. What was the process to determine what was in and what was out? You cite these “1) The writing had to be written by an apostle or under the influence of an apostle; (2) The writing must be consistent with the teaching of the apostles; (3) The writing had be used by Christians from the 1st Century” What evidence did these people have that an apostle wrote anything? IF there is no way to determine this, then point 2 fails since there is no way to determine what the “teachings” were at all. With number 3, there were many many other books used by 1st century Christians and those were intentionally left out. Your supposed limiting characteristics could not be used at all.

    We also know that there was deep divisions in how to interpret the bible, and Christians attacked each other over them, e.g. the nature of Jesus, what was required for salvation, etc. It seems you might be a King James onlyist and we already know that modern scholars know far more about the oldest versions of the books of the bible and that the KJV is full of alterations to those early versions.
    So far, there is no reason to believe in your religion based on the compilation of books called the “bible” any more than thinking that Muslims or the Mormons have the “truth” in their holy books.

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    1. It is true that I use the KJV, chiefly because I believe that the family of manuscripts that translation is based on, are the most accurate record of the New Testament Text. I will deal with the case for this family of manuscripts, known as the Traditional valuesText, in a future blog in this series. I will also deal with the veracity of the New Testament Text, and the credibility of the four Gospels, very soon. These will be my response to some of your criticisms.

      Timothy, He was familiar with the Old Testament Text in the Septuagint, as a follower of Paul he would have been aware of the Gospels of Luke and Mark and the Epistles of Paul. The later epistles and John’s Gospel were probably not yet written. The New Testament was being compiled as an inspired text, but not complete. He was aware of the inspired books that had been completed.

      Translations, The important text is the underlying Greek and Hebrew. The desire to improve translation is not a weakness.

      Unity of the Volume, The unity within the Bible, compiled over 1800 years screams out for divine imput. Please read my later blogs on the New Testament and the Life of Christ. This is central to the credibility of the entire volume.

      Can you think of another ancient sacred text that has been preserved in the same manner as the Bible?

      Yes, there were other writings in the 1st century which are alluded to the New Testament. These were not preserved which was God’s way of stating that they were uninspired. What has not been divinely preserved is not for our benefit.

      Continue to read my blogs. It is good to consider alternative thoughts and views. I am sorry you were once a believer. I fear, however, that you did not possess real genuine faith.

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      1. There have been many many more manuscripts found after the 1600s. So your claims of accuracy is nonsense.

        The claims of “traditional values text” is the usual attempt by a Christian to claim that only his version is the right one, when the values espoused by your bible are indeed traditional but not something to be valued at all. You, like every other Christian, insists that only your version is the true one and you all have the same evidence: nothing.

        There is nothing to support your claim that Timothy was familiar with what you claim. But you are more than welcome to present evidence if you have it. He may have been familiar with the Old Testament, but we know nothing about Timothy but what is claimed in the bible. He was supposedly the son of a Christian mother and a father that no one knows about. So the likelihood of him knowing about the torah is uncertain. The claims of Christians disagree on when when the gospel of John was written and by whom, but there is no reason at all to think it was written by any apostle. There is also no evidence that the bible or any part of it is an “inspired text”, considering how there are so many contradictions in it, including the NT. Let me ask you, FFTS, who was first at the tomb? What did apostles do after the crucifiction? What did the crucified thieves do?

        There is no unity of the bible, and I know this because I read it, so your unsubstantiated claims don’t work with me. There are contradictions, the evidence that entirely different events happened rather than the claims of the bible, and no evidence at all for the essential events of the bible at all. The failure of the all of this shows that there is no “divine” input at all, unless you want to claim an idiot divinity that can’t get its story straight. Without evidence, your blog posts are nothing more than the claims of a Muslim, a Mormon, a Wiccan, myths with nothing to support them, all equal in their lack of evidence.

        There is no evidence for a Jesus Christ, Son of God. There is no evidence for any of the events of his existence, no census that has no records, no massacre of the innocents, no gathering of a legion’s worth of men (plus women and children) twice outside of an occupied city, no miracles, no trial, no cruxfied man with thieves that the bible can’t get its story straight about, no walking dead in Jerusalem, no big earthquake and a dark sky on some day that Christians can’t agree on, nothing.

        IF this was indeed an inspired book, why can’t Christians get the “right” translation right off the bat? Why do Christians disagree on what the bible means, what your god wants? Why can none of you show that your version is the only “true” version, FFTS? Why should I believe you rather than the Catholics, the Mormons, the Unitarians, the Orthodox, etc? I’ve asked Christians repeatedly to show me that they are the true apostles, who can do the promised miracles that the bible promises and not one of you can heal anyone, sadly enough for the people in children’s hospitals and VA hospitals.

        I can think of many other texts preserved the same as the bible, or at least as Christians claim: the qu’ran, the Indian holy books, the ancient Egyptian holy books, etc. I am not ignorant of other religions and their histories as you either are or try to appear to be. The one thing I find hilarious in the bible is that it refers to the book of Enoch as a believable book just as valid as any of the others, but surprise, it isn’t in the bible. They still exist and there is nothing to show your god had anything do with them not being included, only human politics. Since they are in other version of the bible, it seems your god doesn’t agree with you or your claims and they either are to humanity’s benefit, or humans put the bible together and your god is nowhere to be seen.

        I will not continue to read your blogs, not unless you can support your claims with facts. I have had your alternative views and I have read many many apologists and you offer nothing at all new. You have no facts since I have yet to see you offer any to my points and that is no surprise at all. Another no surprise is one more Christian who has to bear false witness against another person in order to lie and claim that I did not have “real genuine faith”. I know that atheists terrify some Christians because our mere existence says that you don’t have the truth you think you do. Sorry, FFTS, I was as good or better a Christian than you. And then I read the bible and started questioning. I prayed to keep my faith, and well, you see where that got me. Now, since you have claimed to be the only TrueChristian, I do expect you to do what true believers are supposed to be able to do. If you can’t, then I have to question why.

        I am waiting for your evidence.

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      2. The Traditional Text is sometimes known as the Byzantine Text; I will explain in a later blog, The Traditional Values Text does not exist.

        Timothy: He was a companion of Paul so he was also a companion of Luke which means he was familiar with Luke’s research into the Life of Christ. As Paul had been to Rome there would have been knowledge of Mark’s Gospel, written to the Romans. He certainly was familiar with many of Paul’s writings. With a Jewish mother and as a Greek speaker it is certain he was raised with the Septuagint, Greek translation of the Massoretic (Old Testament) Text.

        The Empty Tomb: Have you read Frank Morrison’s book “Who Moved the Stone?” He was an atheist who decided to read the Gospels with an open mind looking for the real Jesus not the “mythical figure” who performed miracles. He expected the Gospels to be riddled with contradictions. Instead he found 4 books written from 4 different perspectives which complemented each other, especially where the resurrection account was concerned.

        Apostles: They were a particular group of men who have passed away. There are no apostles, today, therefore the signs of the apostles has passed away. God may restore the sick in response to our prayers but it is not always his will to heal. The Apostle Paul himself had a thorn in the flesh which God did not heal. No-one has special healing powers today.

        Enoch’s prophecy is referred by Jude but he does not refer to a Book of Enoch. The Jews, the historic keepers of the oracles did not recognise this volume.

        Ultimately we choose what we wish to believe based on the evidence that is presented to us. I have chosen to place my faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God because I believe the record of God’s Word to be genuine. Likewise you have made your choice.

        Now let us move onto the New Testament….

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      3. FFTS, you still haven’t provided any evidence for your claims. Simply repeating the claims of the bible isn’t evidence. I know that there is no traditional values text; Christians simply try to claim that their version of the
        bible is the only correct one.

        There is no evidence Timothy existed, though he likely did. The bible only claims that he did and that he was the companions of various people. There is no evidence that the author of the Gospel of Luke, whomever he was, did any actual research on Jesus Christ. All we have are the unsubstantiated claims written by someone we have no idea about. There is no evidence that the Gospel of Mark was “written to the Romans” as you claim. We have no idea how many writings of Paul he was aware of, and if he knew, what we know now, that some of the letters are questionable to who actually wrote them.

        There is no evidence of a tomb, much less of who moved a stone in front of it. Frank Morrison (a pseudonym for Albert Ross) is no different than anyone who converts to another religion and I hadn’t read it before so I just did. Shall I believe in Islam since Christians convert to it? The book you mention was written in the 1930s, and has nothing to support its claims. It also ignores the bits of the bible that are inconvenient, like the bit that says that the apostles didn’t hide after the cruxifiction and were in the temple celebrating. Now, why would a person looking for the “real Jesus” intentionally leave such contradictions out? Morrison says that “The stone, which is known to have been large and of considerable weight, was the great difficulty.” This is not stated anywhere in the bible and archaeology shows that this is not the case for burials of that time period in Palestine. Morrison makes the assumption of a tomb, but has not one scrap of evidence for it, and then makes the further assumption it must have been empty and that by supernatural means, again with no evidence for it. This just William Lane Craig’s nonsense in an earlier form.

        Morrison just says that the Gospel of Mark is right and simply ignores the contradictions of the other gospels. How convenient. But such an obvious bit of nonsense doesn’t work if someone has actually read the bible. I do find it amusing that Morrison contradicts so many Christians when he says that it’s not strange at all that the women were the first to be at the tomb “They fit the circumstances as the hand fits the glove.”, showing that the claim of so many Christians that having women is so very strange it could not be made up to be nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions.

        Morrison also makes more assumptions, the single young man was calling after the women, which is not supported at all by the verses. He’s made up his own story to excuse the holes in the one he has found. HE claims it as a detail ignored when it is simply a detail added by him.

        I also think this is interesting “No one but a writer in close touch with the facts could have given us that unforgettable moonlight picture of the Garden of Gethsemane.” Which per the bible, there either were no witnesses at all to, or it never happened in the first place; so no way that the scene could be reported at all. Again, Morrison intentionally ignores the contradictions and never mentions them at all.

        For a supposedly trustworthy reporter, this man does everything one shouldn’t do to support one’s veracity. He commits lies of omission repeatedly.

        Your bible contradicts you when you claim that there are no apostles today. Unless, of course you do want to admit that your bible has been added to with the last bits of the gospel of Mark. Are you? Is this a lie in your bible or not “15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”?

        Also, is this a lie in your bible? “14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.”?

        Where is the prophesy of Enoch in the bible you claim is the only right one other than in Jude? And hmmm, the biblegateway site says that the reference in Jude is “Jude 1:15 From the Jewish First Book of Enoch (approximately the first century b.c.)” which seems to show your claim “The Jews, the historic keepers of the oracles did not recognize this volume.” To be completely wrong. Can you explain this problem, FFTS? You may want to also read the wiki entry on this Jewish book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

        You, like so many theists, want to claim we can have our own reality, and that isn’t the truth at all. Evidence points to one answer, not whatever we choose. But that’s a nice excuse you’ve made for why you cannot provide any evidence at all for your claims. Still waiting for evidence for your claims, FFTS. I am not surprised that you are unable to provide any at all.

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      4. You say you want evidence, yet you deny the internal evidence that the Bible itself presents. I am happy to continue this conversation but I will do so on the premise of my faith in Jesus Christ as he is presented in the Bible.

        I am impressed that you took the time to read Frank Morrison’s book. The reason why I suggested it, is that he is an example of a skeptic like yourself whose thinking was transformed, although I am sure some of his arguments are faulty, as all our thinking is flawed in some way. Nevertheless the power of the resurrection changed his life.

        Do you believe in spirituality? Are we a collection of molecules and nothing more? What is your thinking about life and our purpose on this planet? Where did we come from and where are we going to? Is your philosophy and worldview satisfying?

        I am glad our conversation reached the resurrection of Christ. You are right to query the order of events. I will in time reply and show you the consistency of the four records, please bear with me in this.

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      5. FFTS, there is no evidence for the claims of the bible. The bible is not the evidence, it is the claim, just like the Qu’ran is the claim about Allah, and Muslims look for evidence to support that, just like Christians do their claims. The bible does contradict itself and thus is not evidence. Let me ask you again, FFTS, what do the thieves do in the easter story? Who was at the tomb first? What did JC say? Where were the apostles? Now, since the stories contradict each other, then we look for evidence and there is none to support any of the essential claims of the bible.

        You say you will continue the conversation on the premise of your faith in Jesus Christ as he is presented in the bible? Well, which one, FFTS, the one weeping in the garden of Gethsemane or the one who did not? The one that says that one only needs accept him as savior, or the one that says one must accept him as God? The one who says to help the poor or the one that says that there will always be poor and that’s not a problem?

        Morrison’s book was a sad example of someone who intentionally lied to try to convince himself that one version of the story presented in the bible was true. It seems you didn’t read this book at all, when you claim that you are sure that some of his arguments are faulty. Which ones, FFTS? Why believe his claims when, as you say, all thinking is flawed in some way? Do you believe his claims just because he agrees with you?

        There is nothing to show that Morrison’s life was changed at all, but if it has, believe in anything new can have the exact same power. One can also say that the belief in Mohammed’s ride to Jerusalem changed lives, the belief in shamanistic spirits have changed lives, the belief that Ahura-Mazda will lead a war against Ahriman has changed lives. Again, no gods needed at all. You are as bereft as those religions when it comes to evidence for your claims.
        I believe spirituality: sensitivity or attachment to religious values (or often to supernatural claims) exists. Do I believe that the spirits that people claim exist are real? Not for a moment, because, like your god, there is no evidence for it at all.

        Yep we are just a collection of molecule, atoms, quarks, etc. No evidence otherwise. Please present evidence that there is something else, a soul, a god, miracles, angels, devi, demons, etc.

        What’s my purpose on this planet? Whatever I decide it will be (bound by my prior experiences and my physican abilities), which is for now enjoying myself and helping others. Where did we come from? All evidence points to the expansion of a singularity starting things. Where did that come from? We don’t know *yet* and that point out the fact that all religion has is stuffing gods into the gaps that we don’t know *yet*. We may never know. Still no evidence for your god or your magical savior. The laws of physics may be what started everything, and those can be just as eternal and unchanging as the gods theists make up.

        Where are we going to? I hope out into the universe to see what there is to see, and as a culture that doesn’t hate people for not worshipping the wrong imaginary friend.

        Yep, my world view and philosophy are quite satisfying. I know you really really hope they aren’t, so you can feel better about yourself. I have great hope in humanity, I have love of my friends family and spouse. I do my best to make the lives of others better. And I do all of this without believing in a heinous god that advocates slavery, genocide and sad little fantasies called hell and heaven and that might equals right.

        I’ve had plenty of Christians say that they will have all the answers I need “in time”. That’s always been a lovely tell to know that you will never do such a thing. Why not now, if you have such answers, FFTS? Why the delay?

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      6. 1: The Resurrection – Sequence of Events on the Resurrection Morning

        You have said the Bible is a contradictory book and is not therefore to be trusted. I present the events that occurred on the Resurrection Morning told by 4 different authors. Where are the contradictions? Your answer implies that if the contradictions are resolved the Bible is trustworthy and can be used as evidence.

        1: The Women come to the Sepulchre and see the angel Matthew 28:1-6, Mark 16:1-8
        Luke 24:1-11

        2: Mary Magdalene Visits Peter and John who respond John 20:1-10
        and come to the tomb

        3: Mary Magdalene meets the Risen Christ John 20:11-18

        4: The other women meet the Risen Christ, as they go Matthew 28:9-10
        to meet the Apostle (Mary was with them)

        2: Our Flawed Nature

        All of humanity is flawed including every author and blogger, yes even you. Your humanism rises to stupendous heights of arrogance. Come down from your ivory tower and admit that you do not have not all the answers. The Bible calls these flaws in our nature sin.

        3: Christianity and Islam

        You insist on comparing the Bible with the Quoran, the Christian God with Allah. There is no comparison. The Quoran was written on the premise of the vision received by one man, Mohammed, in a fairly short time frame. The Bible was written by dozens of authors over a period of 1800 years, and contains a remarkably consistent message. For example was the timing of Christ’s death on the Jewish Passover, at the same time when the deliverance from Egypt occurred, a mere fluke, an accident of nature? Does this not reveal that the overarching plan of Redemption through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God is at the heart of the theme of the Bible? Yes God loved you so much that he sent his son to die for you. This message of love and selflessness is not found in Islam, Allah is not a god of love.

        4: Spirituality

        You say you accept spirituality yet you deny the spirit that is found in man. Contradictory?

        5: First Cause

        Fascinated by your comment, “All evidence points to the expansion of a singularity starting things.”
        I believe that singularity is God. You admit to a first cause. Why not a Creator? Yes, I cannot scientifically prove who the First Cause was, but neither can you.

        6: A Heinous God

        If you wish to go down this road I could spark a discussion about the evils of atheism in the world; Hitler, Stalin, Paul Pot and the Chairman Mao to name but a few. Christianity has transformed the world for good. Atheism is a moral and cultural abyss of darkness and hopelessness.
        7: Faith

        Ultimately the both of us have faith. I have faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, my Saviour and Redeemer. You have faith in humanity, a depraved race, and in the science, with its ever changing and contradictory (at times) discoveries. I know that my Faith is erected upon solid ground. Is yours?

        And try to exercise a little more humility!! I am praying for you.

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      7. First, you say you are praying for me. What are you praying for FFTS? I need to know to see if your prayers work. To be humble? What would an answer to that prayer consist of, completely agreeing with you? And what happens when it becomes obvious your prayer fails? Would that mean that your god loves me as I am, an honest atheist? That you aren’t praying “correctly” as so many Christians say when prayers don’t work? That prayers change nothing? Or that your god doesn’t exist at all?

        The bible is indeed a contradictory book and is not to be trusted. Considering your response, I have to wonder if you know what the word contradiction means. My point that the bible is a contradictory book does imply that if the contradictions were resolved and evidence was found for the events, it may become trustworthy. It does not imply that it could be used for evidence, since claims cannot be used as evidence for themselves. Again, FFTS, the bible stories are claims, just like the stories in the Qu’ran, the Book of Mormon, the Bhagavad Gita, etc. Do you consider those books evidence for the existence of other gods, or do you consider them claims that need to be supported?

        Let’s take a look at your claims.

        1. You claim that the women come to the tomb and see “the angel” in Matthew, Mark and Luke. That is not true. Matthew 28 does say an angel: “an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it”. Mark 16 does not: “they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side”. Luke 24 does not: “While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.” John, which you omitted, does not say this. Mary sees no one when she first goes to the tomb alone. It also has the two apostles not seeing any people at all. Mary does eventually see two angels after Peter and the “other disciple” are there and leave.

        Why you would try to lie about something so easy to prove wrong by just reading the bible is beyond me. Perhaps you are praying I suddenly can’t read and can’t cut and paste.

        2. Since the beginning of the stories don’t match, your claim that certain events follow a single start doesn’t work. Mark 16 says that the women did not tell anyone about what they encountered (Mark 9-20 is a known late addition). No apostle hears so they cannot respond. Matthew 28 says “the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.” which indicates that Mary M was not alone. It also mentions that they all meet JC, recognize him immediately and touch him. No apostles go to the tomb, they are told to meet JC in Galilee. Luke 24 says: “When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.” Again, we have all of the women together, but in this version, no JC to be found. It also says “Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.” No one else goes, just Peter who in this version is the first apostle at the tomb. John has Mary M going to the tomb alone, (seeing no one, as above) returning and telling the apostles. Peter and the “other disciple” go to the tomb. Peter is first in, and the “other disciple” follows. They leave. As above, Mary M then sees two angels, and encounters JC, not recognizing him at all, alone and is warned not to touch him.

        So, what was seen at the tomb first: 1 man, 1 angel, 2 angels or nothing? Who was there to see it: the women or just Mary M? Were the apostles there or not, if so which ones? Was JC there or not? Is JC recognized immediately or not? The verses contradict each other since people cannot simultaneously see 1 man and 2 angels, since either women are there or Mary M is alone, since either JC is there or not, since one man can either go alone or not, since someone can either be recognized immediately or not. You, like Morrison, intentionally ignore parts of your bible when they are not convenient. Alas, for apologists like you, the bible can be read easily. Biblegateway.com is a wonderful tool.

        Humans are indeed flawed, no need for a just-so story claiming a god who let a snake in a garden out of ignorance or intent. I do not have all of the answers, never said I did. What I have said is that there is no evidence for your god or any god, your bible is full of contradictions and nonsense, and that there is no reason to believe that you have all of the answers. I’m still waiting for your evidence for your god. All theists whine that how dare anyone disagree with them, but all of you have nothing to support your claims any better than the next. Shucks, FFTS, your Christianity rises to “stupendous heights of arrogance” when you insist that Allah is not god and Mo isn’t his prophet, that the Wicca goddess didn’t dance the world into existence, etc etc etc. What evidence do you have that they didn’t? I have evidence that completely different things happened instead of your myths and the myths of other religions. What do you have? When did the noah flood happen? The exodus? The birth of JC and death? Even Christians don’t agree on these. Christians don’t even agree on what is a sin.

        Yep, I certainly do insist on comparing your god with Allah, your holy book with the qu’ran. The bible is claimed to be the inspired word of your god; the qu’ran is claimed to be the direct dictation of what an angel said about God (they are the same incidentally since Islam and Christianity (and Judaism) share myths). Neither have any evidence that their claims are true. The bible does not contain a “remarkably consistent message” (see above how it can’t get one story straight), and goes from cheering on genocide to claiming that one should turn the other cheek and back to insisting that anyone who doesn’t agree with the bible god should be murdered and/or tortured forever. Again, you seem to think no one has read the bible and you can make up nonsense about what it contains. It’s hilarious to see you try to claim that one baseless claim about the exodus (no evidence it happened), supports the claim that a man/god was cruxified at Passover. The exodus never happened, not even as a “mere fluke, an accident of nature”. There is no evidence for it at all. But as always, you are welcome to provide some. Since the exodus never happened, it certainly doesn’t reveal any “overarching plan”. What it does reveal is that the exodus story was incorporated into the resurrection story, yet another claim that has no evidence to support it, to try to give it validity. There is no evidence for your god, or these events, so there is no reason at all to think that some god loved anyone, since there is no evidence JC existed at all, much less died and resurrected. Again, please do provide evidence for this if you think you have any. Incidentally, your god is not a god of love either, FFTS. It advocates hatred, slavery, genocide, murder, etc. The Christian God and Allah are quite the pair, being the same god and all, with just as much xenophobic human action assigned to both. The idea of love and selflessness are not unique to Christianity at all e.g. Buddhism is all about the love and selflessness of Buddhists who ignore the chance to get their reward to teach others.

        Sigh. Please do actually read what I write, FFTS. I said I believe that spirituality exists as a concept people believe in. There is no spirit in man or spirits anywhere. Again, please present evidence for your claims. Oh, and it’s not contradictory at all. I’m guessing you really tried to find something I said that was contradictory in order to excuse your nonsense.

        I know you believe that God is what started the universe. God is not a singularity. Thanks again for trying to misrepresent what I say, but it doesn’t work now nor will it ever work. There is nothing that says that the singularity was a First Cause; it could be one of an endless cycle of singularities and universes. Again, we don’t know yet, but the evidence does not support a bible creation (take your pick of the two contradictory stories in Genesis) and does support that physics started the universe (the recent discovery of gravity waves is one more brick supporting that). You certainly cannot show that your god was the creator. It’s just one creator god out of thousands. What you need to show is that your creation story is supported by evidence, that your god exists and that only your god was the creator. Can you do that? The scientific evidence that supports a singularity and Big Bang, is arrived at the same science that makes GPS systems work, computers work, etc. It’s always amusing when Christians accept science when it makes them comfy but ignorantly attack it when it shows their myths to be nonsense. You might want to read up on the subject.

        FFTS, please do try to go down the common and false path that Christians invent for trying to claim that atheism leads to genocide. You seem to be quite ignorant about history since Hitler was not an atheist at all. Indeed, he required his soldiers to wear belt buckles that says “Gott Mit Uns” aka God is with us. You might want to read Mein Kampf to see just how religious Hitler was, especially with his very Christian belief that the Jews were responsible for JC’s death. Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao were likely atheists; they were also megalomaniacs. Now, since not all atheists harm people, but pretty much all megalomaniacs do, what do you think is the important feature here, FFTS? Or do you wish to continue bearing false witness against other people? Christianity has not transformed the world for good. That is just one more baseless claim. Christianity has caused harm and good, just like humans always do. Christianity, for all of its believers claims, is not a religion of love nor is its god the representation of love. It doesn’t even fulfill the fairly good definition of love in the bible in 1 Corinthians. We have had the Crusades, the inquisition, various wars on whose version of Christianity was right, the advocation of slavery (and yes Christians stood against it too, ignoring the commands in the bible), genocide, etc. Atheism is the conclusion that there is no god. Atheist have many different moral philosophies. So, no, atheism isn’t a “moral and cultural abyss of darkness and hopelessness.” That’s something you hope it is, so you can feel superior. The reality is that atheists enjoy life, contribute to charities, help their fellow man, hope and love as much or more than Christians or any other believers in religion. It is good to know that making false claims doesn’t seem to bother you at all and demonstrates that Christianity makes no person better.

        I had wondered when you would try to claim we both have “faith”. Nope, not at all, but it’s a common thing for a Christian to say to try to say that no one is better than they are when they have no evidence and want to ignore that fact. I do not have belief in things unseen and things that have no evidence to support their existence. You do have faith just like a Wiccan, a Jew, a Shintoist, a Muslim, a Zoroasterian, a Hindu, etc. Now, why don’t you believe what they do, since they have as much evidence as you: none.

        Funny how this human race is not depraved at all. You live in it and benefit from it. It’s gotten better and better, ignoring the hatred and ignorance in the various holy books. Slavery has gotten smaller and smaller, no thanks to the bible which says its perfectly fine. Considering women as property has become anathema to most humans, again ignoring your bible’s claims. People of different races, sexual preferences, religions aren’t automatically attacked. The idea of eternal torture, or any torture at all, has become less and less what Christians claim their god wants, to the point they insist it is only a metaphor. Killing people for not paying enough money is considered the tactic of criminals. Yep, some humans still do horrible things, but much less than before, including when your bible stories were invented.

        My knowledge is based upon solid facts. Yep, theories change depending on facts; that’s what is great about it. Rather than still believing that disease comes from an angry god or “bad air” we know it comes from bacteria, viruses, bad genetics, and we can come up with ways to counter such things. We can come up with prosthetics to replace limbs. Funny how your god didn’t do any of this, not even with the “wisest man in the world”. Your faith is based on nothing more than the same myths and ignorance as any theist. You depend on ignoring the inconvenient contradictions in your bible to keep your faith when anyone can read it and see your actions. Other Christians disagree with you and you can’t show that your version is the only right one. That doesn’t seem very secure at all.

        You should wonder why you believe that the bible has no contradictions. Did you come to this idea or did you come to it yourself? If it was from someone else, you should wonder why they told you something completely untrue?

        Please do pray away. Again, what are you praying for FFTS? What happens when your prayer fails? I am hoping you do tell me what you were praying for. If you don’t, that is a strong signal you are afraid it won’t happen and doesn’t do much for your claims at all.

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  2. If you wish to go down this road I could spark a discussion about the evils of atheism in the world; Hitler, Stalin, Paul Pot and the Chairman Mao to name but a few.

    Hitler was a Christian. He was praised by numerous church leaders (Cardinals, Bishops, and priests), including:

    Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber
    Bishop Hans Meiser
    Catholic Hierarchy of Austria
    Cardinal Theodor Innitzer
    Fulda German Bishops’ Conference
    Bishop Rackl of Eichstätt
    Kirchenrat Leutheuser
    Cardinal Adolf Bertram

    And

    Father Senn, who published these words on the 15th of May, 1934:

    [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God, called upon to overcome Judaism…

    The tool of God. Quite a ringing endorsement.

    Now, I can flood you will quotes from Hitler affirming his Christianity (“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2), but I’m guessing you’ll just dismiss them, as it appears from your comments that maintaining your pantomime worldview is more important to you than the truth.

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    1. Whatever Hitler’s claims he was not a Christian nor did his philosophy stem from Christianity. In is no surprise that Roman Catholicism supported him, that is an apostate form of Christianity and is not a credible witness. I quote from a piece I have written in response to another blogger:

      “I am not surprised that you deny Hitler’s atheism; this is one of the common 20th Century myths no doubt because his motivation is a severe embarrassment to atheist. He is the supreme example as to where atheism will take a society, when taken to its logical extremes.

      It is not by accident that Nazism found deep roots in German culture. Much of western thinking and culture has been shaped by the philosophers and thinkers who were of German origin. The last and most influential of the 19th Century’s philosophers was Frederick Nietzsche. He has been called God’s undertaker because of his assertion that God was dead. He of course did not believe that God was literally dead, he never believe the divine existed. He did believe, however, that man was now free from traditional moral restraints because the myth that God was alive was now dead, in the minds of people. Nietzsche believed that human morality was based upon religious concepts and that man had to break free from such straight-jackets. He called for ‘biological heroism’ in re-establishing authentic human existence. He used terms like ‘transevaluation of values’ and a ‘will to power’ in order that new values would be imposed upon humanity. He spoke of humanity working towards a ‘supernature’ and taught that man should look for an ‘Ubermesch’ or ‘Overman’ would lead mankind to a new place ‘good and evil’.

      Hitler hijacked Nietzsche’s thinking with his extermination of the weak and races which, in his twisted logic, he perceived to be a hindrance to the development of humanity. Hitler created a new morality which broke free of traditional moral restraints. What then was Hitler’s god; Nazism, himself even, just as Stalin’s communism turned the state into god. Just as you worship your atheistic concepts.

      Another feature of Nazism which is often overlooked; Hitler and the manner in he employed Eugenics was the logical outworking of Darwin’s philosophy, ‘the survival of the fittest’. The human stud farms, the forced sterilisations, the extermination of the handicapped and other races and ultimately the merciless holocaust was the outworking of Darwinism. Hitler himself said, “He who live must fight and he who does not wish to fight in this world where permanent struggle is the law of life has no right to exist.”

      5: I am staggered by your faith in humanity and it’s improvement. Why then was the 20th century the bloodiest in history? Why did the German people, educated, sophisticated, inventive, intelligent, lend their support (not totally but in sufficient numbers) to allow the emergence of Nazism, why is your nation struggling with the arms control issue despite its catastrophic consequences, why is Europe facing a refugee crisis unprecedented since the 2nd World War, why is Syria a bombed out shell; Why has my little country, Northern Ireland, suffered from terrorism and needless bloodshed? Must I continue. Mankind is hopelessly depraved and in need of redemption. The evidence surrounds us every day.”

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      1. Precisely as I said, you will simply ignore the hard evidence top save your pantomime.

        Adolf Hitler on God: Quotes from Adolf Hitler Expressing Belief & Faith in God

        1. Adolf Hitler: Acting According to God’s Will
        I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

        2. Adolf Hitler: Thanking God
        Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

        3. Adolf Hitler: Deutschland Über Alles
        I had so often sung ‘Deutschland über Alles’ and shouted ‘Heil’ at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

        4. Adolf Hitler: God’s Grace Smiles
        Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord’s grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
        – Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7

        5. Adolf Hitler: Fulfilling God’s Mission
        What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

        6. Adolf Hitler: Fate of God
        But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

        7. Adolf Hitler: Sin Against the Will of God
        In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following: (a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered; (b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap. The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        8. Adolf Hitler: Sacrilege Against God
        Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        9. Adolf Hitler: Confidence in God
        Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the ‘remaking’ of the Reich as they call it.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        10. Adolf Hitler: Gold has Replaced God
        It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        11. Adolf Hitler: Sin Against the Will of God
        It doesn’t dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        12. Adolf Hitler: Creation of God
        That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy, obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church. Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction is replaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created?
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        13. Adolf Hitler: Don’t Just Talk About Fulfilling God’s Will
        The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God’s will, and actually fulfill God’s will, and not let God’s word be desecrated. For God’s will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord’s creation, the divine will.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 10

        14. Adolf Hitler: Doing Justice to God
        To do justice to God and our own conscience, we have turned once more to the German Volk.
        – Adolf Hitler in speech about the need for a moral regeneration of German, February 10, 1933

        15. Adolf Hitler: Going Where God Wills
        I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 15, 1936, Munich, Germany

        16. Adolf Hitler: May God Bless Us
        May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 24, 1933

        17. Adolf Hitler: When We Appear Before God…
        We don’t ask the Almighty, ‘Lord, make us free!” We want to be active, to work, to work together, so that when the hour comes that we appear before the Lord we can say to him: ‘Lord, you see that we have changed.’ The German people is no longer a people of dishonor and shame, of self-destructiveness and cowardice. No, Lord, the German people is once more strong in spirit, strong in determination, strong in the willingness to bear every sacrifice. Lord, now bless our battle and our freedom, and therefore our German people and fatherland.
        – Adolf Hitler, Prayer, May 1, 1933

        18. Adolf Hitler: Fighting for the Lord’s Work
        I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936

        19. Adolf Hitler in Conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber
        The Catholic Church should not deceive herself: if National Socialism does not succeed in defeating Bolshevism, then Church and Christianity in Europe too are finished. Bolshevism is the mortal enemy of the Church as much as of Fascism. …Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.
        – Adolf Hitler in conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, November 4, 1936

        Adolf Hitler on Christianity: Quotes from Hitler Expressing Christian Faith

        1. Adolf Hitler: The Nazi Party Represents Positive Christianity
        “We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession….”
        – Article 20 of the program of the German Workers’ Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP)

        2. Adolf Hitler: I am a Catholic
        I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
        – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

        3. Adolf Hitler: Religious Life as the Highest and Most Desirable Ideal
        I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 1

        4. Adolf Hitler: Christianity and the Holy German Reich
        As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

        5. Adolf Hitler: Significance of the Religion of Love
        The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings… If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth… In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

        6. Adolf Hitler: Personification of the Devil
        ….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
        – Adolf Hitler (following the position of Martin Luther), Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        7. Adolf Hitler: Christians Should Deal with Atheistic Jews
        And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        8. Adolf Hitler: As a Christian, I Feel that My Lord and Savior was a Fighter
        My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. …Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. …
        – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
        9. Adolf Hitler: Fascism is Closer to Christianity than Liberalism or Marxism
        The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms. …The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy …proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism…
        – Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929, on the new Lateran Treaty between Mussolini’s fascist government and the Vatican
        10. Adolf Hitler: Compromises with Atheism Destroy Religious, Ethical Values
        By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society. …
        – Adolf Hitler, speech before the Reichstag, March 23, 1933, just before the Enabling Act is passed.

        11. Adolf Hitler: Burn out the Poison of Immorality
        Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out thepoison of immoralitywhich has entered into our whole life and culture as a result ofliberal excessduring the past … (few) years.
        – Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

        Adolf Hitler on Religion: Quotes from Hitler on the Importance of Religion

        1. Adolf Hitler: Religion is Not a Means of Doping the People
        But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me. Everything was disparaged–the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had to listen to that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeoisie for the exploitation of’ the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterwards; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.
        – Adolf Hitler, on listening to Social Democrats, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

        2. Adolf Hitler: Violence Must Have a Firm, Spiritual Base
        Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

        3. Adolf Hitler: Human World Inconceivable Without Religious Belief
        This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. …There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

        4. Adolf Hitler: Faith Required for Basic Religious Views
        Of course, even the general designation ‘religious’ includes various basic ideas or convictions, for example, the indestructibility of the soul, the eternity of its existence, the existence of a higher being, etc. But all these ideas, regardless of how convincing they may be for the individual, are submitted to the critical examination of this individual and hence to a fluctuating affirmation or negation until emotional divination or knowledge assumes the binding force of apodictic faith. This, above all, is the fighting factor which makes a breach and opens the way for the recognition of basic religious views.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        5. Adolf Hitler: National Socialism is Not Hostile to Religion
        The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgment of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie.
        – Adolf Hitler, speech to members of the Nazi Party on the Nazi-Vatican Concordant, July 22, 1933

        Hitler on Secularism, Atheism: Quotes from Hitler Opposing Secularism & Atheism

        Claims from Christian apologists about Adolf Hitler being an example of the evils committed by secularism and atheism are effectively refuted by Hitler’s own words condemning secularism and atheism. Adolf Hitler did nothing to promote or encourage Germany’sgodless, atheists, and freethinkers but he spoke and acted regularly to promote and defend traditional Christian beliefs, values, and political policies.

        1. Adolf Hitler: All of Culture Must Serve Our Mission
        For this, to be sure, from the child’s primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: ‘Lord, make us free!’ is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: ‘Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!”
        – Adolf Hitler’s prayer, Mein Kampf, Vol. 2 Chapter 13

        2. Adolf Hitler: War Against Spiritual, Political, Cultural Nihilism
        Hitler delivers a speech in which he promises to restore “family…honor and loyalty, Volkand Vaterland, culture and economy” and recover “the eternal foundation of our morality and our faith.” Hitler further declares a “merciless war against spiritual, political, and cultural nihilism.”
        – Adolf Hitler, speech, Feburary 1, 1933

        3. Adolf Hitler: Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated
        Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith …we need believing people.
        – Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

        4. Adolf Hitler: We Will Fight the Atheistic Movement
        We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933

        5. The New York Times Story: “Atheist Hall Converted.”
        “In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members…”

        – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler’s outlawing atheistic andfreethinking groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

        6. Associated Press Story: “Campaign against ‘Godless Movement'”
        “A campaign against the ‘godless movement’ and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s forces.”
        – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933, quoted from Positive Atheism

        Christians on Hitler & Nazis: Quotes from Christians Supporting Hitler

        1. Easter Sunday Blessing: Nazi Party Rules Germany in God’s Name
        A state that once again rules in God’s name can count not only on our applause but also on enthusiastic and active cooperation from the church. With joy and thanks we see how this new state rejects blasphemy, attacks immorality, promotes discipline and order with a firm hand, demands awe before God, works to keep marriage sacred and our youth spiritually instructed, brings honor back to fathers of families, ensures that love of people and fatherland is no longer mocked, but burns in a thousand hearts. …We can only plead with our fellow worshipers to do an they can to help these new productive forces in our land reach a complete and unimpeded victory.
        – Easter Sunday Blessing from Protestant Pastors in Bavaria, April 16, 1933

        2. Cardinal Adolf Bertram: Promoting the Christian Education of the People
        [I wish to express my church’s] sincere and joyous preparedness to cooperate as best they could with the government now ruling that had set itself that tasks of promoting the Christian education of the people, repelling ungodliness and immorality, developing readiness to make sacrifices for the common good and protecting the rights of the Church.
        – Cardinal Adolf Bertram, Archbishop of Breslau, letter to Adolf Hitler following the announcement of the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican, July 22, 1933

        3. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: May God Preserve Adolf Hitler
        What the old parliament and parties did not accomplish in sixty years, your statesmanlike foresight has achieved in six months. For Germany’s prestige in East and West and before the whole world this handshake with the Papacy, the greatest moral power in the history of the world, is a feat of immeasurable blessing. …May God preserve the Reich Chancellor for our people.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, praising Adolf Hitler for the Concordat, July 24, 1933

        4. Kirchenrat Leutheuser: Christ Comes to Us in the Person of Adolf Hitler
        The word “German” is God’s Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. …Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. …Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.
        – Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933

        5. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Catholics Should Agree with the Führer
        In this way the Catholics will profess again their loyalty to people and Fatherland and their agreement with the farsighted and forceful efforts of the Führer to spare the German people the terror of war and Bolshevism, to secure public order and create work for the unemployed.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, encouraging German Catholics to vote “yes” in the upcoming plebiscite to re-elect Hitler and support his decision to withdraw from the League of Nations, November 10, 1933

        6. Father Senn: Adolf Hitler is the Tool of God
        [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God, called upon to overcome Judaism…
        – Father Senn, a Catholic priest, writing in a Catholic publication, May 15, 1934

        7. Loyalty Oath: Unconditional Obedience to the Führer
        I swear by almighty God this sacred oath: I will render unconditional obedience to the Führer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht, and, as a brave soldier, I will be ready at any time to stake my life for this oath.
        – Loyalty Oath sworn by the military following the death of German President Paul von Hindenburg, August 2, 1934

        8. Fulda Bishops’ Conference: Clergy Must be Loyal to Church and State
        [It is good that Catholic organizations] reject all subversive attitudes and conduct, refrain from any political activity and especially will resolutely repel all attempted approaches of Communism. …[The clergy should always act] in full loyalty to Church and State.
        – Statement of the Fulda Bishops’ Conference, August 23, 1935

        9. German Christian: Hitler Has Reawakened the Church
        Why don’t our rulers declare themselves for the Volkskirche, which is fighting for a living Christianity? With our great leader Adolf Hitler, our previously dead church also experienced the reawakening of a vital spirit. …[Julius] Streicher, the Franconian leader, said in a speech: ‘The murder of Golgotha is written on the foreheads of the Jews.’ Yes – and that is why there is a curse on that people. Jesus, however, died for us and so we should believe in him and accept him.
        – German Christian woman, letter to Germany’s Foreign Minister, August 27, 1935

        10. Bishop Rackl of Eichstätt: Good Catholics are Patriots
        Good Catholics have always been good patriots. Surely not good Catholics staged the revolution of 1918, Catholic soldiers indeed have not been deserters, and good Catholics will never be on the side of revolutionaries, no matter how badly things are going.
        – Bishop Rackl of Eichstätt, Sermon, May 26, 1935

        11. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Catholics Should Pray for the Life of the Führer
        You are witnesses for the fact that on all Sundays and holidays at the main service we pray in all churches for the Führer as we have promised in the Concordat. …We will today give an answer, a Christian answer: Catholic men, we will now pray together a paternoster for the life of the Führer. This is our answer.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, Sermon, responding to newspaper story about a Swiss Catholic asking children to pray for Hitler’s death, July 7, 1936

        12. Fulda German Bishops’ Conference: May God Help the Führer Succeed
        [Germany must be made militarily stronger to ensure that not only would Europe be] cleansed from Bolshevism, but the entire rescued civilized world will be able to be thankful to us. …The task which this imposes upon our people and Fatherland follows as a matter of course. May our Führer, with God’s help, succeed in completing this terribly difficult undertaking with unshakable determination and faithful participating of allVolksgenossen.
        – Fulda German Bishops’ Conference, Pastoral Letter, August 19, 1936

        13. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Hitler Lives in Faith in God
        “The Führer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born sovereign. …Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture. …Not as clear is his conception of the Catholic Church as a God-established institution.” As a result of this report, the conference votes to “once again affirm our loyal and positive attitude, demanded by the fourth commandment, toward today’s form of government and the Führer.” They assure the Führer they will provide him “all available moral resources his world-historical struggle aimed at repelling Bolshevism.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, meeting of Bavarian bishops on his meeting with Adolf Hitler, December 13, 1936

        14. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Church Must Strengthen Confidence in Hitler
        “The Führer and Chancellor of the Reich, Adolf Hitler, has sighted the advance of Bolshevism from afar and his thoughts and aspirations aim at averting the horrible danger from our German people and the entire Occident. The German bishops consider it their duty to support the head of the German Reich by all those means which the Church has at its disposal.” Faulhaber insists that defending against Bolshevism is a religious duty and, to achieve this, it is necessary for the Church to muster all its moral and spiritual assets “to strengthen confidence in the Führer.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, Pastoral Letter, January 3, 1937

        15. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Concordat Improves Reputation of Nazi Germany
        At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with cool reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat expressed its confidence in the new German government. This was a deed of immeasurable significance for the reputation of the new government abroad.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, Sermon, February 14, 1937

        16. Cardinal Theodor Innitzer: Pray to God in Thanks for Hitler and the Nazis
        [Austrian Catholics should greet Adolf Hitler and the Nazis by] praying to the Lord God in thanks for the bloodless course of this great political change and to ask for a happy future for Austria. Of course, all orders from the authorities will be happily and willingly obeyed.
        – Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, Archbishop of Vienna, March 12, 1938

        17. Cardinal Theodor Innitzer: Priests Must Support the Führer
        Those…entrusted with souls and the faithful will unconditionally support the great German state and the Führer, because the historical struggle against the criminal illusion of Bolshevism and for the security of German life, for work and bread, for the power and honor of the Reich and for the unity of the German nation, is obviously accomplished by the blessing of Providence. …Faith and the intimate union of souls gives Christians the conviction that the natural community of the nation is called upon to realize a divine idea, and it follows that a truly religious life presupposes the practice of national virtues.
        – Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, Archbishop of Vienna, to Catholic clergy after meeting with Hitler, March 15, 1938

        18. Catholic Hierarchy of Austria: National Socialism Defends Against Atheist Bolshe
        We joyfully acknowledge that the National Socialist movement has done and is still doing eminent work in the domain of national and economic construction as well as in the domain of social policy, for the Reich and the German nation… We are also convinced that the activity of the National Socialist movement has averted the danger of an all-destroying atheistic Bolshevism. For the future, the bishops confer their heartiest blessing on this activity, and they will instruct the faithful to this effect. …it is for us a national duty, as Germans, to vote for the German Reich, and we also expect all believing Christians to demonstrate that they know what they owe to their nation.
        -Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, March 18, 1938

        19. Bishop Hans Meiser: Loyalty Oath to the Führer
        Pastors in the Bavarian regional church are required as public officials to perform the following oath: ‘I swear to God the Almighty and All-knowing: I will be loyal and obedient to the Führer of the Reich and Volk, Adolf Hitler, I will obey the laws, and I will conscientiously fulfill all my official duties, so help me God.’ This law is effective immediately.
        -Bishop Hans Meiser of the Bavarian Evangelical-Lutheran Church, May 18, 1938

        20. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Adolf Hitler is a Man of Peace
        “[Adolf Hitler is a] man of peace. …The great deed of safeguarding peace…moves the German episcopate acting in the name of the Catholics of all the German dioceses…to extend congratulations and thanks and to order a festive ringing of bells on Sunday.” Read in all Berlin pulpits: “God has heard the prayer of all Christendom for peace. By His grace and the tireless efforts of the responsible statesmen the terrible affliction of a war has been averted… [W]e desire now with a prayer and a Te deum to praise God for His goodness in that He has preserved peace for us…[and] assured the return of our Sudeten kinsmen to the German Reich.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, commemorating Germany occupying Sudentenland, October 2, 1938

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      2. Hitler’s concept of God and spirituality are extremely confusing.. What is clear, however, is that he was motivated primarily by atheistic philosophy, something I have already taken time to explain to you. Was Hitler’s motivation religious? If it was it had more to do with ancient German paganism than Christianity. It certainly wasn’t Christianity which motivated him. Christian Leaders who bravely opposed Nazism in Germany on the basis of their faith were treated with the same cruelty as all others who did not fit in with Hitler’s depraved world view.

        In 1991 British journalist William Rees-Mogg writing in “The Times” said; “The emotional power of religious belief can reinforce evil as well as oppose it, yet no religious tyranny in history has matched that spawned by atheism.”

        Yet I accept that atheists are kind, that they love. But and this is important – it is not their atheism which gives them the moral compass to behave in such fashion. Atheism is a system bereft of moral compass, bereft of good and evil. It is God our gracious creator which bequeaths gifts such a love and generosity to all men. Because the scripture states that we were made in his image. The image of God in man, has been warped and twisted by our sin and rebellion, therefore we are in need of redemption, purchased by Christ

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      3. ”What is clear, however, is that he was motivated primarily by atheistic philosophy, something I have already taken time to explain to you.”

        Evidently you do not read a single thing put in front of you. If you did, you would have already seen Hitler’s opinion on atheism. For example:

        ”We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out”.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933

        “Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith …we need believing people.
        – Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

        And once again, if you wish to simply hand-wave and ignore Hitler’s own specific words, we have external, extra-Hitler sources proving you wrong. For example:

        The New York Times Story: “Atheist Hall Converted.”

        “In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members…”
        – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler’s outlawing atheistic andfreethinking groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

        Associated Press Story: “Campaign against ‘Godless Movement’”

        “A campaign against the ‘godless movement’ and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s forces.”
        – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933, quoted from Positive Atheism

        And here is an extract from the Catholic Hierarchy of Austria public proclamation titled: “National Socialism Defends Against Atheist Bolshe”

        “We joyfully acknowledge that the National Socialist movement has done and is still doing eminent work in the domain of national and economic construction as well as in the domain of social policy, for the Reich and the German nation… We are also convinced that the activity of the National Socialist movement has averted the danger of an all-destroying atheistic Bolshevism. For the future, the bishops confer their heartiest blessing on this activity, and they will instruct the faithful to this effect. …it is for us a national duty, as Germans, to vote for the German Reich, and we also expect all believing Christians to demonstrate that they know what they owe to their nation.”
        -Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, March 18, 1938

        As you can see, Hitler was vehemently anti-atheism. His anti-atheism position was even recorded by American news organisations, and praised by religious leaders and organisations.

        So, once again, Hitler not only believed himself a good Christian, but church leaders (Bishops, Cardinals and priests) praised him for his Christian virtues.

        Your worldview is a pantomime.

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      4. Was Benito Mussolini’s, Franco’s, Napoleon’s, Pinochet’s, Simon Bolivar’s, Kaiser Wilhelm’s the II, Nicholas II, Leopold II, or he Baptist, Théodore Sindikubwabo’s (who ordered the Rwandan genocide)?

        You see how this works?

        You see how your worldview is a pantomime?

        Read Hitler’s views an atheism. Read the New York Times and AP stories written in the day… contemporary records which ruin your juvenile argument.

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      5. And as you can see from especially that last list, Bishops and Cardinal’s praised Hitler for his Christian virtues.

        So, despite you claims, Hitler believed himself to be a good Christian, and Cardinal and Bishops praised him for the same.

        External evidence proves your lie.

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      6. And if you like, shall we talk about the murderous European Christian dictators, like:

        Adolf Hitler
        Benito Mussolini
        Franco
        Napoleon
        Oliver Cromwell
        Maximilien Robespierre
        Miguel Primo de Rivera
        Vlad III
        Kaiser Wilhelm II
        Nicholas II
        Leopold II
        Romuald Traugutt
        Slobodan Milošević
        José Mendes Cabeçadas
        Lord John Russell
        Simón Bolívar

        To name just a few.

        We could go through the many African, Central and South American Christian dictators too, if you like… like Simón Bolívar, Hugo Chavez, Pinochet, Agustín de Iturbide, Antonio López de Santa Anna, Porfirio Díaz, Rafael Carrera, Efrain Rios Montt, Maximiliano Hernández Martínez, Jorge Ubico, Daniel Ortega, Manuel Noriega, José Gaspar Rodríguez de Francia y Velasco, Carlos Ibáñez del Campo, Getúlio Vargas, Juan Vicente Gómez…

        And let’s not forget the Christian (Baptist) Théodore Sindikubwabo
        who ordered the Rwandan genocide.

        You see, you narrative is a failed cartoon, a pantomime. You would have to demonstrate a pattern demonstrating universal trend to violence through all atheist world leaders (of which there have been thousands) for even a child to pay your flamboyantly flawed thoughts a passing moment of attention… before dismissing them altogether for the nonsense they are.

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  3. 1. Prayers; Christians find prayer to a powerful tool, a means of grace which bring us near to God. It is not always God’s will to answer our prayers as we would wish him to. Like any good parent he does not give his children all that they ask for.

    2. The Bible as evidence. Any document which is trustworthy is evidence. A reliable consistent document is evidence in a court of law.

    3. You, however, do not agree that the Bible is consistent, particularly on the ground of the Resurrection, which is the battleground of truth.

    Matthew – The angel of the Lord is indeed an angel, the testimony of Matthew is clear.

    Mark – the young man in the white robe was the angel which Matthew recorded. The woman perceived him to be a young man in a white robe and they detected the supernatural, hence their fear. Mark is recording it as it was for the women.

    Luke – two men in shining garments. Matthew and Mark do not record the angel to be solitary. There was at least one angel. It is not contradiction to state that there were two. The three accounts dovetail perfectly.

    John – The story is related from Mary’s perspective. The other women are not mentioned but they were present according to the other accounts. Mary, however, went alone to disturb Peter and the “other disciple” who I am convinced was John himself. They returned with Mary to the tomb. The other women are not present. Mary lingers in the garden after the two men leave and is the first to see the risen Christ.

    Matthew – The other women see him later, perhaps Mary has been reunited with them at this stage.

    As with any recounting of history the stories are told through the eyes of the witnesses who do not always see the events identically. This creates an authentic record. If all 4 accounts were identical the sceptics would reasonably accuse of fabrication. The fact that women were the first people recorded as breaking the news of the resurrection is significant. If one wished to fabricate a story that required credible witnesses against the background of 1st Century Jewish Culture, set in the context context of Roman civilisation, women would not have been chosen. The fact that the women were the first witnesses helps to verify the authenticity of the account. It also shows us that Christianity gave women a dignity which cut against the cultural grain of the era.

    If you wish to put the Resurrection of Christ on trial, as you are intent on doing, let us examine the witnesses. The eye witness statements in any court of law are crucial pieces of evidence. The Jury alone must decide if the witnesses are credible. If the Jurors are prejudiced, however, as you seem to be the verdict will be decided before the trial has begun. I must respectively suggest that you are guilty of such prejudice. You are sifting through the evidence while it is apparent that you have already decided the outcome. This does not make for fair analysis. There is a beautiful and consistent blending of facts, giving us one Resurrection story. More than one witness with their stories told by four authors. Will you continue to deny the greatest truth in the history of the world? I will never change your heart, I wish I could, only God’s grace can accomplish such a miracle; this I am praying for.

    4: Hitler and Nazism

    I am not surprised that you deny Hitler’s atheism; thisis one of the common 20th Century myths no doubt because his motivation is a severe embarrassment to atheist. He is the supreme example as to where atheism will take a society, when taken to its logical extremes.

    It is not by accident that Nazism found deep roots in German culture. Much of western thinking and culture has been shaped by the philosophers and thinkers who were of German origin. The last and most influential of the 19th Century’s philosophers was Frederick Nietzsche. He has been called God’s undertaker because of his assertion that God was dead. He of course did not believe that God was literally dead, he never believe the divine existed. He did believe, however, that man was now free from traditional moral restraints because the myth that God was alive was now dead, in the minds of people. Nietzsche believed that human morality was based upon religious concepts and that man had to break free from such straight-jackets. He called for ‘biological heroism’ in re-establishing authentic human existence. He used terms like ‘transevaluation of values’ and a ‘will to power’ in order that new values would be imposed upon humanity. He spoke of humanity working towards a ‘supernature’ and taught that man should look for an ‘Ubermesch’ or ‘Overman’ would lead mankind to a new place ‘good and evil’.

    Hitler hijacked Nietzsche’s thinking with his extermination of the weak and races which, in his twisted logic, he perceived to be a hindrance to the development of humanity. Hitler created a new morality which broke free of traditional moral restraints. What then was Hitler’s god; Nazism, himself even, just as Stalin’s communism turned the state into god. Just as you worship your atheistic concepts.

    Another feature of Nazism which is often overlooked; Hitler and the manner in he employed Eugenics was the logical outworking of Darwin’s philosophy, ‘the survival of the fittest’. The human stud farms, the forced sterilisations, the extermination of the handicapped and other races and ultimately the merciless holocaust was the outworking of Darwinism. Hitler himself said, “He who live must fight and he who does not wish to fight in this world where permanent struggle is the law of life has no right to exist.”

    5: I am staggered by your faith in humanity and it’s improvement. Why then was the 20th century the bloodiest in history? Why did the German people, educated, sophisticated, inventive, intelligent, lend their support (not totally but in sufficient numbers) to allow the emergence of Nazism, why is your nation struggling with the arms control issue despite its catastrophic consequences, why is Europe facing a refugee crisis unprecedented since the 2nd World War, why is Syria a bombed out shell; Why has my little country, Northern Ireland, suffered from terrorism and needless bloodshed? Must I continue. Mankind is hopelessly depraved and in need of redemption. The evidence surrounds us every day.

    6: Does the Bible support slavery. Another urban myth promoted by atheist propaganda. The slavery of the Old Testament was not the type of racist ownership of humanity that was practised in our recent history within the British Empire and in the USA before the Civil War. It was a means of repaying debts, but there were strict rules as to how the slave was treated and every 7 years there was the opportunity to walk free.

    Yes, the Roman Empire had an economy that could not have existed without slavery but it is untrue to state that Christianity supported the system. Paul for example was aware that he could not change the system. What he could change, however, was the attitudes of the masters towards their slaves. He taught the importance of commonality and love within the home environment. This was a notable transformation in thinking and attitude. The Christian master was not taught to view the slave as his personal property whom he could abuse as he wished. He was his brother in Christ. The letter to Philemon is a striking example of this thinking. It is therefore no accident that Christians such as William Wilberforce were at the forefront of abolishing slavery in the British Empire. They understood that humanity is one and that slavery is a degrading abuse of humanity. All atheism has given us is Nazism, Communism – an moral abyss of darkness.

    In the final analysis your faith in humanity is misplaced – my faith in God as the First Cause, the Governor of Life is reasonable. After all the first words of Genesis agree with scientific discovery – “In the beginning” Why not have the next word “God”?

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    1. It’s not surprising that you try to walk back your claims of prayer *for* me and come up with all sorts of excuses why your god would ignore you. Your bible belies your claim that your god won’t answer prayers as Christians would wish. The bible says directly that the prayers will be answered positively, for what is asked for (a father would not give a snake when asked for a fish) and quickly (the mountain moves, not erodes away into the valley) and JC himself says that “anything” will be granted, no exceptions. It is always interesting when Christians find it necessary to again ignore their bible when inconvenient.

      The bible is not trustworthy and therefore cannot stand as evidence. Again, FFTS, where is your evidence that any of the essential events and characters in the bible exist? Can the Qu’ran stand as evidence in a court of law? Why or why not?

      It is not that I do not agree that the bible is consistent, I have shown that it is full of contradictions. The facts stand for themselves. You have tried your best to cover up the contradictions, but that doesn’t work so well when anyone can read the bible for themselves.

      Again, FFTS, you don’t quite seem to get it. The stories in the bible are claims, they are not evidence. They need evidence to support them, and you have presented none. The Gospel of Matthew does claim an angel: a story told by someone who wasn’t there and there is no evidence, not even in the other stories, for angels at all. Matthew describes the entity and it does not match with the others. The same holds for the Gospel of Mark, something written by someone who wasn’t there, and it doesn’t get the story straight. All of the gospels were written with the women involve so your claim that Mark was recording it “as it was for the women”.

      I love the attempts to claim that amount to “well, no one said it was only one person”, when that is exactly what was said in Mark and Matthew, that there was only one entity/person there. Hilarious that you seem think that the writers would just forget to mention two angels. Yes, it is a contradiction to have a source say only one, and the other say two, especially when the two are shiny obviously magical beings. They do not “dovetail perfectly” at all, all you have is a rather silly retconning of a story to try to make sense out of nonsense, like how fans of Star Wars and Star Trek try to make stories fit together. Only, you try to claim this nonsense is true.

      Hmmm, so you claim that the story in John is from Mary’s perspective. One would certainly think she’d notice the angels that were hanging around the tomb first off. The other accounts do mention the other women, but again, those stories aren’t the same as the one in John. That’s why there are contradictions. They aren’t the same stories. The other stories also show that the other women did go with Mary to the apostles” When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles”, so you have attempted to spread misinformation there too. Why you think your false claims will work when I can read the bible is beyond me.

      Nice try to ignore that all of the women met JC in one gospel and only Mary meets him in the other. Mary and the women meet JC in the garden and embrace him right after leaving the tomb and before meeting the apostles. Mary meets JC after leaving the tomb and meeting the apostles. So, again, contradiction: logical incongruity b : a situation in which inherent factors, actions, or propositions are inconsistent or contrary to one another e.g. A happens at X’oclock. Or B happens at X’oclock. They cannot both happen. Or A happens at x’oclock and A happens at p’oclock, A being an unique occurrence. It can’t happen.

      It’s most curious when Christians try to claim that their bible is truth, but then, when shown that it is full of nonsense, then try to claim that the parts they don’t like are just from human witnesses and of course we should find contradictions. Which is it, FFTS? The literal truth inspired by your god or confused information written by humans? It’s one or the other and Christians certainly like to run from one excuse to the other, forgetting if they use one, they’ve gutted the other. You want to claim how amazingly well they match, and then run away from that when the contradictions are pointed out, now claiming how amazing it is that they don’t match.

      First, there is no evidence of any witnesses. The apostles didn’t write the gospels, there is no evidence for this at all. There is nothing at all significant in having the women being the first to the tomb. This religion was created to gather those without power in the culture. Of course, it was the women who were there first, that’s part of the story of how JC preached to the outliers of society. Now, Paul does reverse this, with his claims that women are not to teach and not to speak. Sad that “dignity” ended so quickly.

      Please provide evidence of witnesses, FFTS. Who wrote the stories? There were no eyewitnesses and eyewitnesses can indeed be wrong, so be careful about how wonderful you think eyewitnesses are. It’s nice to see you again try to lie about me by saying I am “prejudiced” with no evidence as usual. I’m more than happy to see any evidence you have. I’ve been waiting for it for a while. It’s also wonderful to see you blame me for your inability to support your claims, and whine that you will never change my heart. If you have facts to support your claims, you will. Where are they?
      You have yet to support your supposedly “beautiful and consistent blending of facts” and you just ignore the facts that don’t fit, quite a ridiculous attempt since the bible itself is witness to this fact. Ah, so you are praying for me to agree with you. So what happens when your prayer fails, FFTS? Why would your god refuse your prayer to grant me his “grace”? I’ve mentioned the possible reasons before. Which of them apply?

      Nice to see you claim that you are right and every scholar about Hitler is wrong. So, FFTS, why would a supposed “atheist” say all of the things that JZ pointed out? Why would he have his soldiers wear “God is with us” on their uniforms? It’s quite hilarious to see you try to conflate Nietzsche with Nazism. Alas for you, I, and many people, have actually done research in these areas and know what the facts are, just like we know what the bible really says, and not what you claim. You are getting close to some reality when megalomaniacs do what they do. The state is worshipped, not because of atheism but because humans want control, and they worship as a tool. Now, what does that say about religions, all invented by humans?

      I wondered if you would try to associate evolutionary theory with Hitler’s eugenics. Sorry, you’ve failed again by listening to people and not doing the research for yourself. Guess what books were on the Nazi’s lists for destruction? Yep, the Origin of the Species was there. This is from the list of books to be banned, Die Bucherei: “6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel)”

      Yes, Hitler did say the quote about “law of life”. He also said this “Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith… we need believing people.”

      Considering what evidence we have that Hitler was a theist and Christian, what do you have that he was not?

      Yep, I have a lot of reasons to support the fact that humanity is getting better. You benefit from this fact every day. If the world is so awful, then why do you interact with it constantly? You see, FFTS, you are just one more hypocrite, whining how bad the world is, but benefiting from it constantly. What led to the emergence of Nazism? Humans following someone who claimed that God was with them, economics, etc. What stopped them? Humans. No god needed or seen in any concentration camp, firestorm, nuclear inferno, or foxhole. Just humans. Why is Europe facing a refugee crisis and Syria devastated? Oh, you know, pressures of lack of resources, and oh yes, those guys who say that their imaginary friend is better than everyone else’s, and they’ll murder everyone until only the believers of the true god are left, just like is claimed in Revelation.

      Wow, why did Northern Ireland suffer such horrors? Because two sets of idiots decided to claim that their imaginary friend was better than the other fellows imaginary friend and that they and only they “deserved” the land and neither could show this was the case; so they blew up other people to show how great their religion was. Catholics and Protestants, what Good Christians, still fighting over nonsense from the Elizabethan period and earlier. There are folks in the US who glorify that hateful nonsense. Please do continue, you’re doing a far better job than I in showing that theistic belief causes a lot of misery.

      Again, if the world is so awful, why do you use all of these awful depraved things, like computers and modern medicine, and cars, and modern foodstuffs, all brought about by us depraved humans. I do expect such an exemplary Christian to immediately stop using such things. But you won’t will you? You’ll just make up an excuse so you won’t lose your comfies.

      The writings in the bible do support slavery. Again, you try to make claims that can be shown to be false simply by reading your bible. It is no “urban myth” at all. We have your god approving of taking slaves, including as part of its share of the war booty. We have your god giving laws on how to deal with slaves, and declaring them property, worth less than other humans. There are indentured servants in the bible, Jews who buy off their debts to other Jews by servitude, which you describe, and slaves who cannot do the same (nice try to again ignore the claims of your bible when convenient). We have your bible saying that a man must choose between family or giving up any chance he has to be free. We have that a father can always sell his daughter into slavery, and we have the clincher, that the suposedly inspired word of God says that slaves should never ever try to be free, but must always obey their masters, no matter how abusive they are (1 Peter 2). By your bible, all slaves who want to be free are disobeying your god. You may want to read your bible someday, FFTS, and see what it really says, not what you’ve been told.

      The Israelite economy also had an economy based on slavery, as did the Romans. The Christians supported the system, if the verse in 1 Peter 2 are true. Or perhaps you wish to say that the verses aren’t true, FFTS? It’s amazing how your supposed chosen of God decided they can’t change the “system” when other people did actually try, and have tried through history. Now, I have a question to ask you, would you be my slave if I didn’t beat you all that much? You can’t do what you want, you can’t go home, you must work when I say, you can’t marry who you wish and your children belong to me. Is that enough of a change for you? If it isn’t, then Paul did nothing that you find valuable, a slave is still a slave. In the Roman system, slaves could be freed, but in the Christian claim, slaves shouldn’t even want to be freed. Quite a difference. You also try to peddle the nonsense that Christians were all abolitionists, which again is belied by the arguments for slavery by the British Christians and the American Christians all based on the bible.

      Again, thanks for lying again, FFTS. Nazism and Communism are not from atheism. Nazism was based on the rantings of a man whose beliefs were based on the Christian claim that Jews were responsible for JC’s death. Communism was based on the megalomania of various idiot who decided what they believed was true without regard of facts. Christians did stand against Nazism, as Christians stood against slavery, using the bible to argue against what the other side used the bible to argue for. You seem to forget, or intentionally ignore, the fact that not all atheists are the nihilstic megalomaniacs that you wish they were. Again, FFTS, we are just like you. You need to tell lies about us because the mere existence of atheists means your claims are questionable. We show that no one needs your god at all, and can be just as humane and human as anyone else. No one needs to obey you or think your version of this nonsense is the only right one.

      Still waiting for evidence that your god exists at all, FFTS. There is nothing to show that your god exists, that it is the only creator, or that the essential event of the bible happened at all. The reason why cosmology doesn’t say “in the beginning God” is because there is no evidence for that at all, just like there is no evidence for “in the beginning there was a cosmic egg” or “in the beginning the Goddess danced” etc. If there is nothing reasonable in those claims, there is nothing reasonable in yours, it having no more evidence than those other myths.

      No, FFTS, I do not worship atheism. Atheism is a conclusion. There is nothing to worship. It always bemuses me when some Christian seem to think that claiming that atheists worship something is such an insult, when you folks do this “worship”.

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      1. The only subject I wish to reply to you on, at this stage, is your judgement relating to Northern Ireland. As someone growing up in NI I know from experience that our troubles have Nothing to do with religion. The problem is political, constitutional, North ern Ireland ‘ s place in the UK. But no paramilitary group has been formed in order to persuade people to change religion. There is a religious dynamic at work in our society but that divide is not the cause of our troubles. You need a more in depth analysis of Irish History. In relation to the other matters, I think enough has been said for now. Every debate has to end.

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      2. It is no surprise that you don’t want to wish to reply to the other subjects since you have no evidence to back up your claims about them. Convenient, isn’t it?

        As someone who grew up in NI, your claims that your problems had nothing to do with religion is simply a lie, told for what reason I have no idea.

        The story began with the different religions, Catholicism and King Henry VII’s newly invented church. This informed the invasion of Ireland and why we have a “Northern Ireland” and an “Ireland”, which religion was allowed to be practiced where. Christians were all about burning each other under Elizabeth I, Francis, Phillip 2 of Spain, etc. You might want to read the history of your own country. The wiki article is a good start, and its references even better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland “Northern Ireland was created in 1921, when Ireland was partitioned between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland by an act of the British parliament. Unlike Southern Ireland, which would become the Irish Free State in 1922, the majority of Northern Ireland’s population were unionists, who wanted to remain within the United Kingdom,[12] most of whom were the Protestant descendants of colonists from Great Britain; however, a significant minority, mostly Catholics, were nationalists who wanted a united Ireland independent of British rule”

        No paramilitary group may have been formed to persuade people to change their religion, but they killed many because of their religion. If religion wasn’t the reason, then why did protestants target Catholics and Catholics target Protestants almost exclusively. Why was an entire organization created because of anti-Catholic discrimination in NI? I know you claim that Catholics aren’t real Christians, but of curse you can’t prove that they are not, nor that you are.

        So, I have quite a good knowledge of Irish history, and know you are wrong.

        IF you have nothing to support your baseless claims, then the debate is indeed over. You appear to have conceded and as always still no evidence to support your claims.

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      3. I am quite capable of pursuing an informed debate. I shall however close down the debate on this particular blog, as I do not believe we are at a stage where any good is being achieved. I am unconvinced by your arguments and feel that you are a prejudiced juror.

        I cannot, however, let you away with your remark regarding Northern Ireland. Certainly your information regarding Ireland is false. Let me enlighten you. It was not the Reformation which brought the English to Ireland. The English arrived in Ireland in 1171. Henry 2nd assumed sovereignty over Ireland because the Pope, Adrian 4th granted him Ireland in exchange for 1 penny per year for every Irish household. The Papal motivation was he might have jurisdiction over the Irish Church. The Irish Church probably preceded Patrick and had never submitted entirely to the Bishop of Rome. Therefore the Papacy used the English Crown to subjugate the Irish people to it’s apostate brand of Christianity. English rule in Ireland has nothing to do with the reformation. At the Reformation the Irish Church converted to Protestantism as did the Church of England and indeed the Church of Scotland. It was the arrival of the Scottish Planters in the 17th Century which caused a great deal of agitation. But that is another story. For example the first republican movement in the 18th century was supported by both Presbyterians and Catholics. If you want to read more I recommend Professor ATQ Stuart’s book “The Narrow Ground”. Believe me the Political Constitutional issue is a bigger problem in Northern Ireland than religion. There is sectarianism too. But many who carry labels of Protestant and Catholic seldom attend church and are not versed in doctrines of their respective churches. Did you know for example that the two largest nationalist parties in the north follow a moral policy on gay marriage which is opposed to the teachings of the Catholic Church? Irish history is more complicated than the Irish American lobby try to make out with their spurious propaganda. Regards.

        ie if you wish comment on another post feel free, this is the close of debate on this particular post.

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  4. Most interesting that you have refused to say what you were praying for regarding me. Are you embarrassed of what it was or that you know that if you make a claim, it will fail?

    I’ll be back later to answer the rest of your baseless claims. It’s also nice to see that John Z can show your claims to be completely false regarding Hitler.

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      1. Again, what were you praying “for” me, FFTS? So, are you praying for me to be “born again”? And if this does not happen again (it happened once, didn’t stick. yes please do try to claim I wasn’t a TrueChristian), why would this be if your god has said that anything asked for in his name will be granted? If nothing happens, is your god happy with me as I am, an honest atheist? Is he ignoring your prayers because you aren’t doing them in the correct way? Is there no free will and I’m damned no matter what since your bible says that some people are damned by you gods whim, no choice in the matter? Or is it that your god doesn’t exist?

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      2. You raise important issues in relation to spirituality and I thank you for asking. I know I stated previously that I did not believe you were ever a genuine Christian and you replied that you were a better Christian than I am. The truth is, I did not know enough about you to make that judgement and you do not know enough about me. Therefore I shall shelve “judgementalism”, which spell check tells me is not a word, but there you are! The best answer to your question stems from my personal experience. When I was a child of approximately 6 I asked Christ to save me with a simple childish prayer. When I was 13 I encountered serious doubts; Was I a Christian? How could I know I was a Christian? This was what I call my moment of spiritual crisis. It was more than a moment because it continued for several days. I was drawn to John 6:37 where Jesus Christ said, “Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out.” When I prayed asking God to prove these words in my life. I was coming to Him on the basis of His promise. As I placed my faith upon His Word, His truth, the amazing sense of peace and joy that flooded my heart is beyond all description. I did not speak with tongues (I am not a believer in the gifts of the spirit as the Pentecostal Churches interpret them), I am from what we call a “sober Presbyterian Ulster Scots background”, I did not see visions, or anything like. A simple peace and assurance. The euphoria of that moment has long sense passed. Yet the stable assurance of faith has remained. No more doubts. Did deserve God to do this for me. No. We are all undeserving. Yet what God does is a gift of his mercy. This is what it means to be born again.

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